calling those solid syndet shampoo makers! Options

[sarahlf]

Hi guys!

Just wondering how the experiments with your solid shampoos were going?

I read the original threads with great interest, awe and respect!! At the time, being from the UK, I couldn't get hold of the ingredients, but I've now ordered from various sites in the States and have attempted some of the formulas with sort of success-ish!!

Have you come up with the winning, perfected formulas?

Out of interest, could you adapt these to include some water content or is this impossible? The Lush bars contain water, but I presume these are M&P.

Did you also invent the perfect solid conditioner? Do you have any tips or suggestions that I could use to make my own, for personal use only? The only thing I can't get hold of is sodium stearate (having trouble with some sites not getting back to me with shipping quotes!).

I'd love to hear of your latest news, if any.

Best wishes,

Sarah.

[CathyMb]

I'm totally in love with my solid shampoo bars. Its all we use now. I won't be making anymore for a while...I have four bars not touched yet..and one half in the shower now. They last about three months with three people using them everyday...very economical.

My youngest son doesn't like them. He says the smell is disgusting. (Rosemary)

He does use my conditioner though. I decided to give the solid conditioner a bye.....I can't see how it would work. (there is bound to be a way...but I ran out of time and steam)

Thanks for asking.

[sarahlf]

Thanks for replying CathyMb. Did you stick to your original idea/formula?

[CathyMb]

Pretty much. I'll post the recipe a little later. (Not awake enough to go and find my notebook yet)

[sarahlf]

Thanks! Look forward to it!

[CathyMb]

OK..here is the formula. There are a lot of ingredients most of which are available at Voyageur soap and candle.

23% Sodium Coccyl Isethionate (sp) (jodapon prilled sufractant- herbary)
40% SLSA
6% incroquat (voyageur)
5% stearic acid
2.5% E-wax
2.5% cocoa butter
1% dimethicone
15% Bioterge 804 (voyageur)
3% EO
2% Protien (Crotien HKP from Croda)

Mix first 6 ingredients slowly for a long long time. It seems to take forever for the SCI to melt. Just keep heating on a fairly low heat.

After the SCI is finally melted begin cooling, stirring all the time...When the container becomes "touchable" add the dimethicone to the bioterge + the protien (its hard to dissolve too) heat at low heat and stir stir stir. Add the EO then add this to rest and stir until homogenious.

Pour into small moulds and let cool. Once its barely cool cut into about 2 oz pieces.

[Pollywog]

Cathy, you are indeed a forum goddess.
I, too followed that old thread about your experiments with solid shampoo bars.
You are so generous to share your formula.
My experience with soaping is pretty basic CP and HP, but I am determined to not be TOO intimidated by the ingredients in your formula and give it a try.
After a little research and education of course, as I know NOTHING about dimethecone and the like!
I love the solid shampoo I picked up in Europe, and have only one small chunk left. Now I can make my own- WOOHOOO!
Okay, calming down now.......
susan

[CathyMb]

hahaha....susan..definately the hardest part is finding the ingredients! Its very simple to make.

[Pollywog]

Well, you've given us some sources to start with- :)
Are they all in Canada, and if so, I wonder how complicated it will be to order out of the US- hmm... never done that before-
susan

[CathyMb]

Its not complicated at all. Its cheap and simple.

You can probably find the stuff in the US...but work out the price...remember that the Canadian dollar is at least .25 less than US.

[Pollywog]

Thanks, Cathy.
Ill definitely pursue this after the holidays.

[sarahlf]

Thanks so much for sharing Cathy. I have most of the ingredients - I've been buying from a few US sites and have stocked up on shampoo ingredients in particular, as they are so hard to find in the UK.

I'll be giving this a go!

Best wishes,

Sarah.

[sarahlf]

Just as an after-thought... I spoke to Angie at the Herbarie recently, regarding the SCI noodles (melting them and I want to incorporate them into a bubble bar - the honey pies are excellent by the way) and Angie agreed that grinding the noodles first is the way to go. She also passed on some info for using SCI in liquid shampoo - the noodles melt more easily in very hot water, rather than with oils or other surfactants.

Don't know if this is any help/relevant/you know it already, but I thought I'd pass it on anyway!!

Sarah.

[CathyMb]

Hi sarah

For the shampoo you can't really dissolve them in water.. the only water is the water that is present in the small amount of bioterge 804...but it might be worth trying them in that first.

The SCI I have aren't noodles, they are granular and prilled...kind of finer than the noodles I think. I've put them in the food processor first with the slsa and gave them what for...They will dissolve...you just have to be patient..LOL (not something I'm famous for!)

[sarahlf]

Thanks Cathy - I have Angie's noodles and I know what you mean about being patient! I'm going to try the ground-up way in liquid shampoo (more water content), but I've used them (ground-up) in bubbling bath bombs and bubble bars along with SLSA and I have the 6yr old son's seal of approval!!

Experimentation is sometimes the best part!!

Sarah.

[CathyMb]

I have to say that SCI provides a fantastic feel to your skin. When I began making honey pies thats what I used...no bubbles to speak of but man did it feel nice.

I've made liquid shampoo with SCI too and it worked well..its a really nice gentle surfactant.

[sarahlf]

You're the one who gave me the bug to buy from Angie at the Herbarie! You're a BAD influence (so are other people on this board)!

I'd just like to thank you ALL for your great ideas and info. Trouble is, it costs me just as much to ship to the UK as it does to buy the stuff, but I've made some fabulous products (for myself only until I can pluck up the courage to set up business) and I HAVE to experiment at every available opportunity - I think I've become obsessed!!

I'm going to see if I can come up next with a solid conditioner.
Would a solidified lotion be worth a go - I tried one the other day (with minimal water content), using conditioning emulsifier and crothix and it's getting harder but not quite there! Any tips?!

Sarah.

[Sneaux]

Cathy MB, why a 2 oz. size bar? I haven't made these, but wanted to experiment after the holidays. Guess I was envisioning a shampoo bar the size of a bar of soap. Thoughts? Thanks.

[CathyMb]

They last a long time. I guess you could make them any size you want..I did the 2 oz size because I was thinking of selling them..Add up the ingredients....they are expensive little buggers to make. I couldn't fathom anyone wanting to pay much more than about $8 or $10 bucks a bar...so...2 oz fit that price category.

btw..that 2 oz bar lasts 3 of us about 3 months...(use it everyday)

[CathyMb]

bumping this up for Island soaper.

[Lara]

last night, i FINALLY gave this a try. i was holding out for my SLSA sample, which still hasn't arrived, so i thought, "to hell with it, i'm just going to use what i've got."

here's the recipe i used:

46g SCI (jordapon prilled)
6g incroquat
5g stearic acid
2.5g e-wax
2.5g cocoa butter
2g dimethicone
14g Bioterge 804
1g guarsilk (from the herbarie...i didn't have any crotein)
1g panthenol
3g fragrance

Cathy, are you SURE the SCI melts??? i had it sitting in a pyrex measuring cup, in a hot water bath for about 45 min. before i got so impatient that i just threw it in the microwave. after zapping it for 30 seconds, about 5 times, it was very very hot, but STILL wasn't melted, so i just went ahead with the recipe.

it was sorta fluffy and pourable when i molded it in a yogurt container, so i took another container the same size and compacted it down really well before sticking it in the freezer to cool.

when i unmolded it, it was nice and hard and waxy feeling, much like the Lush shampoo bars. i cut it up into 4 pieces, and it cut pretty well. i was half-expecting it to crumble, but it didn't. if i had unmolded and cut it a little sooner, it probably would've cut cleanly.

used a piece in the shower just now, and it held up really well. stayed hard, but produced really dense, creamy lather. no big bubbles here (wasn't expecting any b/c there was no SLSA). it'll be interesting to compare the two once my SLSA gets here.

cleaning-wise, it left my hair feeling squeaky clean. i always use a conditioner b/c i've got long straight hair that tangles like it's nobody's business, so i just want my shampoos to make my hair feel like it got cleaned.

Cathy, to make this more conditioning, what could i decrease (and by how much, max) in order to increase the dimeth. and the incroquat? should i ditch the stearic and use the herbarie's conditioning emulsifier instead? in addition to emulsifying, it also thickens. also, the dimeth. i have is Dimethicone Copolyol Ester, which is water-soluble. is it still effective in a recipe that doesn't contain water?

sorry for the long post and all the questions!!

here's what my solid shampoo bar looks like:

(IMG:http://www.beauxeaux.com/images/shampoobar1.jpg)

L.

[ElaineB]

SCI doesn't really melt, at least not at the temperatures we usually use for body care products. It's got a very high melting point. But it dissolves readily into water, especially as the temps go up.

So the best way to liquify SCI is to heat it in some or all of the water/liquids you're using in the rest of the formulation. Sometimes you need to stir it a bit, too, with something solid like a spoon or rod (to minimize the number of air bubbles you mix in.)

Elaine

[CathyMb]

To melt the sci mix it with the liquid sufactant..you can add a little water to hurry it along. I put it in the microwave at low for about 30 minutes. It really takes a long long time.

To make it a bit more conditioning, I'd up the cocoabutter a tad, and perhaps the incroquat and dimethicone. (its hard to tell without percentages and right at this moment I don't have time to formulate your recipe).

Your bars look great!! Keep in mind you can add a bit of water, they will just be a tad softer. If they are as hard as mine are, it won't hurt them to be a little bit softer. Mine are like rock.

[Lilli]

[quote]I just re worked my syndet shampoo bar formula
[/quote]

Just curious, Cathy why did you reformulate ? What were you trying to correct or improve upon, assuming if it aint broke don't fix it :)


(quote taken frm Mty Mouse thread about shampoo bars for teens)

[CathyMb]

Lilli...I was trying to make them more cost effective and had cut down the amount of SLSA previously. I upped it again because the lather wasn't as good as it could be.

I'm really happy with the formula I posted on the Mty Mouse thread.

The shampoo bar I sent you was from BEFORE I cut down the slsa, so I don't think you'd notice much difference.

It was my son who brought it to my attention..."mom, this doesn't lather as well as before" (whine)